Undocumented Changes.

[swestrup]

Here's another Linux Pet Peeve. I've been writing them down here to document them, since when I'm not actively working on a Linux system I don't remember them. Then way I say to someone "Linux still doesn't seem ready for Prime Time", they want examples. (Of course when I CAN give examples, as I've been doing, they usually respond with "Oh, that's only an issue with P on distro Q. Use distro R and you won't have that." which, naturally, ignores the hundreds of issues that distro Q has...

In any case, I expect to spend all day trying to configure MLDonkey on my box. Its the 'default' P2P file service on Debian KDE. It comes with a set of documentation that is horribly broken. Mostly that's because the package, as shipped by Debian, uses none of the configuration or setup methods documented by the package. It seems the Debian folks have decided to use some other homebrew method of setting it up and/or configuring it, none of which work, and none of which they have documented. Certainly the install wizard that came with the debian package fails spectacularly.

See, here's a real problem with the Linux community in general. They assume you'll use a command-line system to install everything since everyone is intimately familiar with every subsystem a package could touch, and how to make them play nicely. The GUI is added as an afterthought, is seldom tested, and is often horribly broken in a large number of ways. Now even this, I could live with, if the documentation that accompanied the package for the CLI install (and which is absolutely required from the command line -- you could get away without it if the GUI "just worked") was A) present and B) accurate. Often it manages to be neither which is quite a feat when you think about it.

Comments

Not ready for Prime Time.

[kozmcrae.livejournal.com]

"The GUI is added as an afterthought, is seldom tested..."

Are you nuts? Seldom tested? That's a joke. Vista is a pale imitation of Compiz. I use KDE but even Gnome and Fluxbox are better than XP. I've used all four. I'm lazy and I don't care for constant maintenance of my computer, that's way canned XP in favor of Linux. That's why I use Linux because XP is not ready for Prime Time. Any OS that needs auxiliary software to keep it safe on the Internet is not ready for the desktop. I know everyone thinks it is normal, but it's not. Vista is better but it's not there yet.

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[swestrup]

I'll believe this the moment standard Linux documentation starts telling folks how to do things in terms of the GUI, not the command line.

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[sps.livejournal.com]

Like the Windows documentation, which is ... where? I mean, how do I replace the Windows file browser? What do I do about Windows library incompatibilities? You install a game under Windows and it will sometimes silently do an incompatible replacement on your entire graphics subsystem. Microsoft have pushed out a service pack - absent which, no security patches - which disables my RAID subsystem and leaves me unbootable. And it has no tools for dynamic repartitioning. Everything you complain about in Linux is a thousand times worse in Windows, and they have the audacity to charge you for it as well.

Look, something documented is better than nothing documented. At least, under Linux, if I care enough I can C-A-F1 and speak to the O/S. And when I do tat, things are modular enough to figure out. Under Windows, you are just permanently SOL. Apparently, by design. I mean help (whether at the command line or interactively), unlike man, tells you nothing about the registry, and no only that but the registry seems to have been built without a permissions model to prevent subsystems hijacking each other. And you say this is good? I dunno, man....

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[swestrup]

You can usually get away without documentation when the GUI works. When you have to do things via the command line, the documentation becomes mandatory.

By default, Windows does things the GUI way and Linux the command line way. In both cases, when nothing works, you need the docs. But with Linux, even when it all works perfectly you still NEED the docs.

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[sps.livejournal.com]

I agree, as far as it goes. But my experience with Windows is that the GUI doesn't work, so you still need the documentation, and whereas Linux has patchy and out of date docs, there's much of Windows where there are no docs and no plans for docs and everyone who could even write a FAQ is under NDA... and the version-to-version churn of a GUI is by and large much worse than a command line system, too.

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[swestrup]

And, BTW, I spent all day trying to figure out what subsystem is in charge of deciding that when I hit my FX86MediaKey, the OS should launch Amarok. I would far rather have it just pass on the keystroke to VBox. So far I've delved through many layers of OS, each of which can intercept and handle extra keys, and none of which appear to be the culprit. I'm still looking...

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[sps.livejournal.com]

I don't happen to know. This frustrates me also, since I too really like to set up my keyboard mappings in a more principled fashion. But again, Windows can't be said to be better. These things seem to be controlled under Windows by proprietary add-ins that disable the O/S HID driver configurators, and good luck on ever getting anything working again if you switch peripheral vendors...!

I think it just sucks differently.

(Speaking of sucking, have I worked it out correctly that Rex : Regina :: VAX : VAGINA ????)

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[swestrup]

> Rex : Regina :: VAX : VAGINA ????

Yes, and Linda informs me that Fax : Fagina as well...

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[cloquewerk.livejournal.com]

If I understand you correctly, you're looking for Xmodmap. That's what I use to set up my accented characters (which, if properly configured, are a million times more intuitive than Windows). I know however that there are some compatibility issues between various window managers and Xmodmap, but I'm sure there are ways around them, or for that matter perhaps there's an altogether different way of doing it. I have never bothered since I use a very minimalist window manager. Anyway it's a place to start looking.

Re: Not ready for Prime Time.

[swestrup]

Xmodmap is installed, but is not configured. xkb is installed and configured, but doesn't report having any bindings for my MediaKey. Ditto for khotkey and TouchKey and all of the other hotkey managers that Debian seems to have installed...

You're confused.

[kozmcrae.livejournal.com]

You are confusing can use the command line with must use the command line. Just like the department store at the Mall. You can use the stairs to get to the second floor or you can take the escalator. But there is no sign saying you MUST use the stairs. Many reviewers who are looking to bash Linux do lots of stuff in the shell. Then they make sure they compile something. And, finally, they scour the Web (ignoring the Package Manager) for some application to download like you do in Windows. If you are looking to make Linux look bad you can, but it takes work. It's a lot easier to just use it.

Re: You're confused.

[swestrup]

No, ususally you MUST use the command line because the GUIs don't expose the necessary features for you to do what you need to. This, in turn, is because most Linux developers don't 'eat their own dogfood'. They don't use the GUIs to install/maintain/customize their programs, so they never notice the inadequacies.

Try installing a fresh installation of any distro (your choice) and set it up exactly as yours is now, without ever touching a command line. I seriously doubt you could do it.

I use the command line exactly ONCE.

[kozmcrae.livejournal.com]

When I install PCLinuxOS I use the command line just once to setup the motherboard sensors to work with GKrellm. There are times when something isn't working right (long after installation) so I copy the command from the menu editor and paste it in the shell. Then I get to see all the error messages the the GUI hides. Is that what you mean? Still, it's not a common occurrence. Look, you want to see a lot of command line work, install Slackware. You want compile like there's no tomorrow, install Gentoo. You want a brain-dead Linux installation? Install PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu, Mint, SimplyMepis, AntiX or Mandriva. If you have trouble with those, then your brain is dead.